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james
post Feb 23 2006, 01:08 PM
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Here's a question for you:
QUOTE
"A plane is standing on a runway that can move (some sort of band conveyer). The plane moves in one direction, while the conveyer moves in the opposite direction. This conveyer has a control system that tracks the plane speed and tunes the speed of the conveyer to be exactly the same (but in the opposite direction). Can the plane take off?"


A couple of links discussing it (and some funny rationalizations for peoples incorrect assumptions):
www.kottke.org/06/02/plane-conveyor-belt
www.straightdope.com/columns/060203.html


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Emily
post Feb 24 2006, 03:16 PM
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I am ment to know the answer to this question having discussed it with james but i am still unsure.

what you are suggesting would have to mean that the plane is not in contact with the ground at all, the plane cannot move foward via the wheels as they have been forced to stay in one plane (lets all agree on that) so what is forcing the plane to move faster than the convayer? for this is what has to happen, there has to be some motion for the air to pass under the wings! as its not motion from the plane moving along the ground as normal, what is it. The engine cannot move the plane faster than the conveyer, as gravity and the weight of the plane for it onto its wheels. are you suggesting that the engine counteracts the 1G created by gravity? huh.gif
so if the wheels are counteracted by the conveyer you are suggesting that i plane can take of from standstill, on its belly without rubbing alone the ground?. wacko.gif

but to be honest with you if this where possible i am sure they would not have had to create harriors tongue.gif



and i dont agree with the matchbox thing

the matchbox thing doesn't work as your arm is counteracting the weight of the car and the gravities force as well as creating motion


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Posts in this topic
james   Brainteaser   Feb 23 2006, 01:08 PM
camsmith   Before I look up the links... Yes it can.   Feb 23 2006, 01:21 PM
james   Anyone else?   Feb 23 2006, 02:07 PM
paul   My initial thought is a big no! I can explain...   Feb 23 2006, 03:33 PM
james   Fire away! - Show your workings out and the ex...   Feb 23 2006, 04:39 PM
womble   erm quick change of mind after new logical suggest...   Feb 23 2006, 04:52 PM
camsmith   OK... My very first thought was no, but then I t...   Feb 23 2006, 04:57 PM
womble   hmmm yeah that actually sounds about it yeah that ...   Feb 23 2006, 05:14 PM
james   Yeah that's exactly it - I think what makes us...   Feb 23 2006, 05:25 PM
Sam   This is Paul - Can't be arsed to log out then ...   Feb 23 2006, 08:12 PM
Egg Designer   therefore Paul your answer is no, as the engines p...   Feb 24 2006, 12:45 AM
paul   Hence my statement of ' My initial thought is ...   Feb 24 2006, 07:46 AM
Egg Designer   ahh yes! will read closer next time, it was la...   Feb 24 2006, 08:36 AM
quaker   no it wont take off , paul has it almost right ( ...   Feb 24 2006, 09:19 AM
james   Yes it will :biggrin: Think of it like this - h...   Feb 24 2006, 10:14 AM
paul   No it wont now quiet the lot of you   Feb 24 2006, 01:35 PM
camsmith   Why, did you put the parking brake on? :biggrin: ...   Feb 24 2006, 01:55 PM
jamie   The plane aint going anywhere (until you turn off...   Feb 24 2006, 02:26 PM
james   Ok how about a different approach: Imagine you co...   Feb 24 2006, 02:31 PM
jamie   Ok how about a different approach: Imagine you c...   Feb 24 2006, 03:16 PM
camsmith   Alternatively, think about a matchbox car (I'm...   Feb 24 2006, 02:37 PM
james   The planes lift is certainly not just being caused...   Feb 24 2006, 02:40 PM
womble   I would agree with camsmith on this one. Planes do...   Feb 24 2006, 02:50 PM
camsmith   and i dont agree with the matchbox thing the mat...   Feb 24 2006, 03:26 PM
Emily   and the argument suggests that no matter how fast ...   Feb 24 2006, 03:17 PM
jamie   James/ cam are you saying that at the exact point ...   Feb 24 2006, 03:23 PM
jamie   which was my point. AIRSPEED, not converyer speed   Feb 24 2006, 03:30 PM
camsmith   The running on a treadmill is again not a fair com...   Feb 24 2006, 03:30 PM
jamie   If the planes 'speed' is being matched and...   Feb 24 2006, 03:34 PM
camsmith   If the planes 'speed' is being matched an...   Feb 24 2006, 03:36 PM
james   Another version to help you visualise the solution...   Feb 24 2006, 03:43 PM
jamie   I think you may need to read the first post again ...   Feb 24 2006, 03:45 PM
Emily   can we leave out that plane taking off, we all kno...   Feb 24 2006, 03:51 PM
james   J - you are not understanding the difference betwe...   Feb 24 2006, 03:56 PM
Emily   i cant even think if a way to explain it but as i...   Feb 24 2006, 03:57 PM
camsmith   It's all about relative speeds... A car's...   Feb 24 2006, 03:58 PM
james   No worries hun (in case anyone wonders what we are...   Feb 24 2006, 04:00 PM
Emily   we're about to have another now that you have ...   Feb 24 2006, 04:02 PM
Doctor   My brain hurts :confused: I took one look at th...   Feb 24 2006, 04:06 PM
camsmith   I reckon we should use the treadmill, rollerblades...   Feb 24 2006, 04:18 PM
jamie   I dont feel confused, I just think youre all wrong...   Feb 24 2006, 05:13 PM
paul   A plane cannot take off without air moving over th...   Feb 25 2006, 08:20 PM
Emily   will you all LISTEN and STOP talking about the blo...   Feb 26 2006, 12:23 PM
quaker   computer says no   Feb 27 2006, 01:09 PM
Janette   *cough*   Feb 27 2006, 01:31 PM
Egg Designer   For the love of God! Cam - read the first pos...   Feb 28 2006, 07:33 AM
camsmith   For the love of God! Cam - read the first po...   Feb 28 2006, 10:43 AM
womble   Ok this is a conversation I had from a colleague t...   Feb 28 2006, 09:19 AM
james   Rory - I've run out of ways to explain how you...   Feb 28 2006, 09:29 AM
Emily   can i ask the everyone read my post about the whee...   Feb 28 2006, 09:36 AM
womble   Yeah id guess that close to how it works Em. As lo...   Feb 28 2006, 09:44 AM
james   I don't understand that post Mike - on a freew...   Feb 28 2006, 10:09 AM
womble   My answer was in 2 parts, one being with real phys...   Feb 28 2006, 10:16 AM
james   Well yeah I understand what you are saying but as ...   Feb 28 2006, 10:48 AM
womble   Yay you got it, its hypotheticaly what would need ...   Feb 28 2006, 10:55 AM
paul   Anyone see the footie last night?????   Feb 28 2006, 03:47 PM
womble   I bet all you saw was wedding books! :biggrin...   Feb 28 2006, 04:57 PM
quaker   big stick immenent :ph34r:   Feb 28 2006, 05:59 PM
Egg Designer   OK, I understand that forward thrust in the real w...   Mar 1 2006, 08:37 AM
james   And therein lies the rub - nowhere in the question...   Mar 1 2006, 10:39 AM


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